I’m on the committee reviewing applications this year for OHSU and thought I’d share some thoughts and maybe give you guys a brief insider’s look into the black box (at least at this institution).

There is an initial screening of all applications received from the NRMP that blocks any applicant with green card or passport issues (very few of these) OR any applicant with a USMLE Step 1 score of less than 200.

The applications then come to a committee (of three) who then score the applications independently from 1 to 5.  Interview invitations then get sent out depending on the final score.

Generally, this is what I look at in order. Keep in mind that this is just for interview invitations and doesn’t have a whole lot to do with the generation of the final rank list.

1) step 1 score: the higher the better.  I don’t have a personal cut off.  If you’re below 210, my eyebrow goes up.  I rarely (like never) look at Step 2 scores.  If you’ve taken Step 1 multiple times, this is a bad prognostic factor.
2) letters of recommendation: if they are not from a neurosurgeon, I don’t read them.  General surgeons, maybe sometimes I’ll read.  Other docs, forget it.
3) CAS application: looking for outside interests and experience.  I want to see if you might be interesting to talk to.
4) personal statement: I mostly skim it.  I’m looking for red flags.  For future applicants: recommend you SPELL CHECK and make sure your GRAMMAR is right.  I see more errors in US Senior applications than FMG applications, but this could just be from the fact that there are way more US seniors.
5) transcript: only look through if I’m bored.  If you flunked a class in medical school, I won’t notice.
6) photograph: most important.  Just kidding (although some are entertaining).  I’d just send in a passport photo.  You don’t want to stand out too much.

I don’t have a formula for score generation, just my own black box.  The others on the committee have their own methods.  I know that if you have a second degree (PhD, Masters, JD), that you get extra points.  If you have several peer-reviewed publications, more points.

Getting the interview is the hard part, in my opinion.  Once your foot’s in the door, you can really work your way up the rank list, regardless of your paper application.  Likewise, you can work your way down, too.  I’ve seen applicants that look great on paper TANK the interview and don’t even get ranked.

Best of luck.

Well, this is discouraging. I’m fairly certain that by the time I graduate I will have a better credential than 90% of the applicants. However, this is obviously not going to help me at places where applicants who require visa are automatically screened off without even being looked at.

What kinds of things cause someone to tank an interview?  I mean, aside from the obvious: drinking too much, racial slurs, lying, etc.  Are there subtle things that someone might not be aware they are doing wrong?  Or is it behavior that pretty much everyone else on the trail would pick up on, and agree was inappropriate?

in a few months the threads on TOP TEN PROGRAMS will start popping up as everyone anxiously awaits match results with nothing better to do…

...without wanting to start any of that prematurely, OHSU is an excellent institution, and it’s not a far cry to put it in the top 10%.  that said, FMG if your application is only 90th percentile, i’d much rather take the ten percent americans better than you.  fear not though, if your application truly is 90th percentile, i have strong faith that you will match at a similarly 75th-95th percentile program.

there are several other excellent institutions that i would most certainly put in the top 10-15% that also has taken in foreign grads.  it’s the foreigners with the below-average applications that need to worry most; i think you’ll be pleased with the results.

best of luck

Quick question for Kenny. when you say “green card or visa issues” does that mean people with green card is not accepted to your institution? or people who doesn’t have green card is not accepted?
As far as I know, green card holder is treated equally as citizens when it comes to residency application. Please let me know.

Thank you

Kenny Liu - 22 September 2008 06:46 AM

I’m on the committee reviewing applications this year for OHSU and thought I’d share some thoughts and maybe give you guys a brief insider’s look into the black box (at least at this institution).

There is an initial screening of all applications received from the NRMP that blocks any applicant with green card or passport issues (very few of these) OR any applicant with a USMLE Step 1 score of less than 200.

The applications then come to a committee (of three) who then score the applications independently from 1 to 5.  Interview invitations then get sent out depending on the final score.

Generally, this is what I look at in order. Keep in mind that this is just for interview invitations and doesn’t have a whole lot to do with the generation of the final rank list.

1) step 1 score: the higher the better.  I don’t have a personal cut off.  If you’re below 210, my eyebrow goes up.  I rarely (like never) look at Step 2 scores.  If you’ve taken Step 1 multiple times, this is a bad prognostic factor.
2) letters of recommendation: if they are not from a neurosurgeon, I don’t read them.  General surgeons, maybe sometimes I’ll read.  Other docs, forget it.
3) CAS application: looking for outside interests and experience.  I want to see if you might be interesting to talk to.
4) personal statement: I mostly skim it.  I’m looking for red flags.  For future applicants: recommend you SPELL CHECK and make sure your GRAMMAR is right.  I see more errors in US Senior applications than FMG applications, but this could just be from the fact that there are way more US seniors.
5) transcript: only look through if I’m bored.  If you flunked a class in medical school, I won’t notice.
6) photograph: most important.  Just kidding (although some are entertaining).  I’d just send in a passport photo.  You don’t want to stand out too much.

I don’t have a formula for score generation, just my own black box.  The others on the committee have their own methods.  I know that if you have a second degree (PhD, Masters, JD), that you get extra points.  If you have several peer-reviewed publications, more points.

Getting the interview is the hard part, in my opinion.  Once your foot’s in the door, you can really work your way up the rank list, regardless of your paper application.  Likewise, you can work your way down, too.  I’ve seen applicants that look great on paper TANK the interview and don’t even get ranked.

Best of luck.

Visa issues? Does this apply to US grads as well if you’re not a US citizen of green card holder?

I think the problem with green cards and visa issues is that no one knows if you will be here for the entire 7 years.  What happens if there is some sort of visa issue two years into training, and you aren’t allowed to continue, causing the residency program to be left without a resident.

Unfortunately, if there is a candidate with equal credentials that has no visa issues, they will be higher on the rank list, every time.  Some of these visas, or having an ambiguous or unresolved issue with your visa will be a automatic unrankable candidate.

I’m not disputing that the visa thing might be an issue but realistically how many people have been asked or have left due to such circumstances in the past....especially US grads. My guess is not very many because it’s pretty easy to figure out the visa situation; especially if you graduated from the US. I know plenty of US grads from other countries who match into ortho and other surg subspecialties. For some reason, NS seems to be ‘unique’, for the lack of a better term. I think it’s a different ball game if you’re doing finishing medical school in China for instance.

How do you guys handle applications that don’t have all the letters of rec submitted?  Do you simply put them aside until the letters come in?

regarding foreign graduates, the criterion we use here is: must have either a H1, H1B or J1 Visa with an ECFMG certificate at time of application.

injinjay - 25 September 2008 05:03 AM

How do you guys handle applications that don’t have all the letters of rec submitted?  Do you simply put them aside until the letters come in?

we still look at them.  i think as long as there are at least 2 letters, we look at them and give them a pre-interview score.

One more question re: US Grads that are not US Citizens nor GC holders....

I will be a US Grad Class of 2010 and am interested in applying for Neurosurgery. I have a pending GC application that is in queue to be approved. Because of my pending GC application, I have an EAD card (Employment Authorization Document) that allows me to work.

My question is: in your initial review do you remove any applicants with EAD cards?

I would appreciate your reply.

Thanks!!

Kenny Liu - 25 September 2008 09:21 AM

injinjay - 25 September 2008 05:03 AM

How do you guys handle applications that don’t have all the letters of rec submitted?  Do you simply put them aside until the letters come in?

we still look at them.  i think as long as there are at least 2 letters, we look at them and give them a pre-interview score.

Does the score suffer much/at all if you don’t have all your letters in when you submit?

no.

Wha-wha-wha!

Kenny Liu - 22 September 2008 06:46 AM

I’m on the committee reviewing applications this year for OHSU and thought I’d share some thoughts and maybe give you guys a brief insider’s look into the black box (at least at this institution).

There is an initial screening of all applications received from the NRMP that blocks any applicant with green card or passport issues (very few of these) OR any applicant with a USMLE Step 1 score of less than 200…
1) step 1 score: the higher the better.  I don’t have a personal cut off.  If you’re below 210, my eyebrow goes up.  I rarely (like never) look at Step 2 scores.

1) Does anyone know if most programs have a hard cut off like this (whether it be 200 or some higher number)
2)Also, is it common for such little weight being placed on step 2 scores?
Thanks in advance