preclinical - mostly pass
clinical - 2P, 2HP, 2H
step 1 - 235/98
pubs - many first author-3rd author (20+) in JNS, rando-journals, CNS conferences, AANS conferences, rando-conferences, etc.
med school - midwest reasonably good name, not top 40 NIH

home ns now, then sub-i and two other places sept and oct…

should i take my step 2 in august, or do another subi and get another ‘guaranteed’ interview?

i know its going to be a long four months of hell (home ns hrs are 430am to 11pm 6/7 days a week, q3-5 call), but i think im up for it.  id truly appreciate advice from residents, attendings, anyone in the know.

thanks

Anonymous User - 25 July 2008 08:15 AM

preclinical - mostly pass
clinical - 2P, 2HP, 2H
step 1 - 235/98
pubs - many first author-3rd author (20+) in JNS, rando-journals, CNS conferences, AANS conferences, rando-conferences, etc.
med school - midwest reasonably good name, not top 40 NIH

home ns now, then sub-i and two other places sept and oct…

should i take my step 2 in august, or do another subi and get another ‘guaranteed’ interview?

i know its going to be a long four months of hell (home ns hrs are 430am to 11pm 6/7 days a week, q3-5 call), but i think im up for it.  id truly appreciate advice from residents, attendings, anyone in the know.

thanks

I’m sorry but your grades don’t look to good. I am not sure how much that will affect you though.

Anonymous User - 25 July 2008 08:23 AM

Anonymous User - 25 July 2008 08:15 AM

preclinical - mostly pass
clinical - 2P, 2HP, 2H
step 1 - 235/98
pubs - many first author-3rd author (20+) in JNS, rando-journals, CNS conferences, AANS conferences, rando-conferences, etc.
med school - midwest reasonably good name, not top 40 NIH

home ns now, then sub-i and two other places sept and oct…

should i take my step 2 in august, or do another subi and get another ‘guaranteed’ interview?

i know its going to be a long four months of hell (home ns hrs are 430am to 11pm 6/7 days a week, q3-5 call), but i think im up for it.  id truly appreciate advice from residents, attendings, anyone in the know.

thanks

I’m sorry but your grades don’t look to good. I am not sure how much that will affect you though.

The above poster is an idiot; probably someone who wants to de-rail your efforts because he/she is a coward. Keep working and you’ll be just fine. Good work thus far. Some of the best residents at my program (NE, top-ten ranked hospital--whatever the hell that means) had numbers (and grades) just like yours. Clinical grades, apart from those earned in surgery (neurosurgery) don’t mean much--I think we all know how much BS is involved in the clinical grades.

Anonymous User - 25 July 2008 09:02 AM

Anonymous User - 25 July 2008 08:23 AM

Anonymous User - 25 July 2008 08:15 AM

preclinical - mostly pass
clinical - 2P, 2HP, 2H
step 1 - 235/98
pubs - many first author-3rd author (20+) in JNS, rando-journals, CNS conferences, AANS conferences, rando-conferences, etc.
med school - midwest reasonably good name, not top 40 NIH

home ns now, then sub-i and two other places sept and oct…

should i take my step 2 in august, or do another subi and get another ‘guaranteed’ interview?

i know its going to be a long four months of hell (home ns hrs are 430am to 11pm 6/7 days a week, q3-5 call), but i think im up for it.  id truly appreciate advice from residents, attendings, anyone in the know.

thanks

I’m sorry but your grades don’t look to good. I am not sure how much that will affect you though.

The above poster is an idiot; probably someone who wants to de-rail your efforts because he/she is a coward. Keep working and you’ll be just fine. Good work thus far. Some of the best residents at my program (NE, top-ten ranked hospital--whatever the hell that means) had numbers (and grades) just like yours. Clinical grades, apart from those earned in surgery (neurosurgery) don’t mean much--I think we all know how much BS is involved in the clinical grades.

sounds like you are jealous that your grades sucked. Don’t take your failures out on me loser. I’m sorry but “most pass” for all clinical grades is just ridiculous. I want a very hard worker as a ns not someone who just wants to get by. Deal with it.

sorry preclinical that is

The only people who care about preclinical grades are the ones who wasted their time gunning for honors, only to realize that it doesn’t mean ANYTHING when it comes to clinical performance, and as a measure of their knowledge base is completely overshadowed by their Step 1 score.  And the OP’s Step 1 score is certainly competitive.

Anonymous User - 25 July 2008 10:17 AM

The only people who care about preclinical grades are the ones who wasted their time gunning for honors, only to realize that it doesn’t mean ANYTHING when it comes to clinical performance, and as a measure of their knowledge base is completely overshadowed by their Step 1 score.  And the OP’s Step 1 score is certainly competitive.

and the only ones who constantly say that preclincal grades mean nothing are the ones who could NOT do well (even though they probably wanted to). It makes them feel all warm and fuzzy inside by finding false flaws in those who do perform well....like “I’m sure I am more clinically oriented than him” or “I must be a better peoples person” or “grades mean nothing” Let’s be honest with ourselves just for a minute, mmmk! In MOST cases, those who did well in preclinical years ALSO did well clinical years. In MOST cases those who did well 1st two years had an easier time with step 1.  In MOST cases residencies want the BEST which means AOA (which is largely based on grades and rank BTW) Step 1, clinicals, research EVERYTHING. One DECENT step 1 score does NOT erase an entire 4 years of lackluster performance, sorry it just doesn’t. Why...because you will have TONS of applicants with or who top that board score, WITH great grades, with great rank, with great research, etc.......

Anonymous User - 25 July 2008 10:48 AM

Anonymous User - 25 July 2008 10:17 AM

The only people who care about preclinical grades are the ones who wasted their time gunning for honors, only to realize that it doesn’t mean ANYTHING when it comes to clinical performance, and as a measure of their knowledge base is completely overshadowed by their Step 1 score.  And the OP’s Step 1 score is certainly competitive.

and the only ones who constantly say that preclincal grades mean nothing are the ones who could NOT do well (even though they probably wanted to). It makes them feel all warm and fuzzy inside by finding false flaws in those who do perform well....like “I’m sure I am more clinically oriented than him” or “I must be a better peoples person” or “grades mean nothing” Let’s be honest with ourselves just for a minute, mmmk! In MOST cases, those who did well in preclinical years ALSO did well clinical years. In MOST cases those who did well 1st two years had an easier time with step 1.  In MOST cases residencies want the BEST which means AOA (which is largely based on grades and rank BTW) Step 1, clinicals, research EVERYTHING. One DECENT step 1 score does NOT erase an entire 4 years of lackluster performance, sorry it just doesn’t. Why...because you will have TONS of applicants with or who top that board score, WITH great grades, with great rank, with great research, etc.......

Ahh, hit a nerve.  I don’t happen to fall in the lackluster camp you describe, but I do think preclinical grades are pretty worthless, and easily overshadowed by an excellent record elsewhere in the app.

Anonymous User - 25 July 2008 11:47 AM

Anonymous User - 25 July 2008 10:48 AM

Anonymous User - 25 July 2008 10:17 AM

The only people who care about preclinical grades are the ones who wasted their time gunning for honors, only to realize that it doesn’t mean ANYTHING when it comes to clinical performance, and as a measure of their knowledge base is completely overshadowed by their Step 1 score.  And the OP’s Step 1 score is certainly competitive.

and the only ones who constantly say that preclincal grades mean nothing are the ones who could NOT do well (even though they probably wanted to). It makes them feel all warm and fuzzy inside by finding false flaws in those who do perform well....like “I’m sure I am more clinically oriented than him” or “I must be a better peoples person” or “grades mean nothing” Let’s be honest with ourselves just for a minute, mmmk! In MOST cases, those who did well in preclinical years ALSO did well clinical years. In MOST cases those who did well 1st two years had an easier time with step 1.  In MOST cases residencies want the BEST which means AOA (which is largely based on grades and rank BTW) Step 1, clinicals, research EVERYTHING. One DECENT step 1 score does NOT erase an entire 4 years of lackluster performance, sorry it just doesn’t. Why...because you will have TONS of applicants with or who top that board score, WITH great grades, with great rank, with great research, etc.......

Ahh, hit a nerve.  I don’t happen to fall in the lackluster camp you describe, but I do think preclinical grades are pretty worthless, and easily overshadowed by an excellent record elsewhere in the app.

whatever you say buddy.....keep thinking an average usmle score for ns with nothing else is all you need....yes keep thinking that.

you sure you’re up for it? if so, go for it.  your stats are fine to match, just apply widely and i think youll be pleased with your final match.

Anonymous User - 25 July 2008 10:48 AM

Anonymous User - 25 July 2008 10:17 AM

The only people who care about preclinical grades are the ones who wasted their time gunning for honors, only to realize that it doesn’t mean ANYTHING when it comes to clinical performance, and as a measure of their knowledge base is completely overshadowed by their Step 1 score.  And the OP’s Step 1 score is certainly competitive.

and the only ones who constantly say that preclincal grades mean nothing are the ones who could NOT do well (even though they probably wanted to). It makes them feel all warm and fuzzy inside by finding false flaws in those who do perform well....like “I’m sure I am more clinically oriented than him” or “I must be a better peoples person” or “grades mean nothing” Let’s be honest with ourselves just for a minute, mmmk! In MOST cases, those who did well in preclinical years ALSO did well clinical years. In MOST cases those who did well 1st two years had an easier time with step 1.  In MOST cases residencies want the BEST which means AOA (which is largely based on grades and rank BTW) Step 1, clinicals, research EVERYTHING. One DECENT step 1 score does NOT erase an entire 4 years of lackluster performance, sorry it just doesn’t. Why...because you will have TONS of applicants with or who top that board score, WITH great grades, with great rank, with great research, etc.......

Can I get an AMEN?????

As an educator, I can say that preclinical grades are based largely - if not 100% - on test scores.  In turn, tests measure one single thing, at the lowest common denominator...your ability to take a test.  That is all.  One’s ability to take tests and honor a preclinical course as a result no more guarantees your success as a great clinician than being able to ace a written test on skateboarding guarantees you will be the next Tony Hawk (or whatever...you can insert your own example here)...let alone even ride a flipping skateboard. Can you be a world-class clinician but a poor test-taker?  Yes.  Can you be a world-class test-taker but a poor clinician?  Yes.  The luckiest (defined by hard work converging with opportunity) of all of us are those who are great in both areas.

I think we would all agree that, as a surgeon, being a world-class clinician will be what your patients, colleagues, yourself and others will judge you on.  As an example, bedside manner is much much higher than test scores on a patient’s list of qualities they look for in a surgeon.  Therefore we should all strive to be great clinicians, first and foremost, and not allow a number or score to define / dictate our potential for greatness.

The ones who argue that you need high preclinical grades and test scores to even get the opportunity to train at certain programs are missing the fact that your education and training is what you make of it.  If you have what it takes to be a great clinician, you will be...no matter what your preclinical grades are; no matter what your test scores are; and no matter where you train.

It is all up to YOU.

Anonymous User - 31 July 2008 12:38 PM

As an educator, I can say that preclinical grades are based largely - if not 100% - on test scores.  In turn, tests measure one single thing, at the lowest common denominator...your ability to take a test.  That is all.  One’s ability to take tests and honor a preclinical course as a result no more guarantees your success as a great clinician than being able to ace a written test on skateboarding guarantees you will be the next Tony Hawk (or whatever...you can insert your own example here)...let alone even ride a flipping skateboard. Can you be a world-class clinician but a poor test-taker?  Yes.  Can you be a world-class test-taker but a poor clinician?  Yes.  The luckiest (defined by hard work converging with opportunity) of all of us are those who are great in both areas.

I think we would all agree that, as a surgeon, being a world-class clinician will be what your patients, colleagues, yourself and others will judge you on.  As an example, bedside manner is much much higher than test scores on a patient’s list of qualities they look for in a surgeon.  Therefore we should all strive to be great clinicians, first and foremost, and not allow a number or score to define / dictate our potential for greatness.

The ones who argue that you need high preclinical grades and test scores to even get the opportunity to train at certain programs are missing the fact that your education and training is what you make of it.  If you have what it takes to be a great clinician, you will be...no matter what your preclinical grades are; no matter what your test scores are; and no matter where you train.

It is all up to YOU.

doing well on tests measures more than your ability to take a test. If you know the material and are prepared, besides “disability”, you should have no problem doing well.  I think this is why there is emphasis on grades, step 1 and such. I don’t care how “caring” a person is, without a certain amount of knowledge and quick thinking ability they wont be good clinicians. Given that, I am not saying just because you do well in school means you will be the best clinician. But, at the same time people who often don’t do that well fall all too conveniently into the excuse of being “better clinically” Sure you could be aweful on tests and great in person and vice vera, but it doesn’t seem THAT difficult to be good all the way around. If scores didn’t matter, residencies would not use them. There would be no competition. I am not saying it is impossible for someone with average grades, both clinical and preclinical with average boards to get into a competitive speciality. Let’s not live in la la land though. It is going to be a lot more difficult for them to get what they want. Hard work should be rewarded. All of the sudden if a 4th year wakes up and wants NS really bad,they shouldn’t feed them sunshine and excused saying the last 4 years of performance were meaningless and don’t mean a damn thing, and if people did do well that means nothing for them.

Anonymous User - 31 July 2008 12:38 PM

tests measure one single thing, at the lowest common denominator...your ability to take a test.  That is all.

You are truly a fucking retard.  What, is the euclidean math test biased against your race or something?  You stupid fuck.  Without objective criteria to distinguish applicants, we’d just go on personality, in which case giant man-ginas like you and your gaping, rotten fucking man-pussy would not be allowed in a neurosurgeon’s O.R. except perhaps to get that lobotomy to relieve the last 2% of your brain that’s still working from all of the pressure of supporting your ability to type ass-backwards liberal ‘your OK, I’m OK’ bullshit on the internet.

Kill yourself.

Alright, can we ban this tool now?

Every once in a while I get the urge to post my stats on this board and ask “Do I have a chance?” But then I remember that this thread is par for the course, and I decide to rely on the advice of attendings.

If you want to know what your chances are, ask Neurosurgeons at your hospital.  Don’t bother coming on here to be sniped by a bunch of high-schoolers, idiots, and wieners.