Residents and MS4’s already matched, at which institutions did you all absolutely love your sub-i experiences and why? We’ve already seen that Clinical Pediatric Neurosurgery at Hopkins is pretty cool, what about the rest of you willing to share that information?

Will ANYBODY offer some advice on where to go for a great Sub-I experience...please? 

I guess the better question for you is, where do you potentially want to go?  The purpose of a sub-i is to really see the program for yourself, and see if you would like to go there for residency.  It obviously depends on the program as to if doing a sub-i makes a difference or not in terms of your chances of getting in.  Some places you really only have a decent shot if you do a sub-i (Ex: BNI), other places it wont make a difference at all, and I would venture to say that some places it will hurt you.  So I would ask yourself those questions, and try and find out more about the sub-i at a particular institution.  That being said, I did a sub-i at the BNI.  This was an incredible experience in terms of learning, getting to do alot in the OR, and most everyone is extremely friendly. You get to see alot (I mean crazy s&*%, and get to do alot). Needless to say the BNI is one of the best programs in the country, and doing a sub-i is a great experience.  They have housing (you have to pay, but its there for you) unlike alot of other places where you would have to go out and hunt for a place to stay. 

This would be a great post for the new group of incoming residents to share their experiences for the upcoming class.  I, too, had trouble trying to decide where to do a sub-i, so I did alot of searching on NSmatch (for good or bad), so looking their might be beneficial in some aspects.  Try and decipher what is honesty and what is crap can be difficult at times.....

the above poster is right.  don’t base your decision to do a sub-i on whether you think you’ll have a good time or not.  your sub-i can be (and usually is) a key strategic player in the neurosurgery match game.  sub-i’s are usually places you are more interested in than others, whether it’s because of geography or prestige or whatever.  they give you an opportunity to look behind the scenes and spend time with the department to see if they’re really for you (and also for them to get a taste of yourself).  some students do away rotations to get letters from big time people.

i did my sub-i’s based on geography and where i think i might want to go.  my faculty advisor at the time also had a part to play.  i knew i wanted to do sub-i’s on the west coast and he picked out the places.

that being said, i always here good things about the barrow.  you’ll have a good time there.  let me also take this opportunity to plug OHSU.  i’m going to be chief in july and will do everything i can to make sure you guys have a good time if you come here.  we have a good group of guys on the university service next year that are all interested in teaching and getting students involved.  work hard for us and we’ll work hard for you.  we’re fairly busy here, we do a lot of big whacks, and the campus is beautiful.  we’re the only neurosurgery residency with an aerial tram, too.

I am also trying to plan some away rotations.  I have one scheduled this summer at Navy Medical Center Bethesda (required) and an AI scheduled at my home instituiton.  I would like to fit one more in but it may be difficult to schedule.  Currently I am considering either University of Florida or OHSU. These are two programs that I am interested in addition to the typical need for letters for my application.  My school has some pretty big names in neurosurgery so I should be able to get a letter or two from their, however I am not sure what level of “prestige” or weight a letter from the Navy will hold compared to some more highly regarded academic institutions.  While I am interested in Florida and OHSU I am worried about being burned out after three consecutive AIs.  Would I be better served by just doing two AIs and having an additional letter from the Navy or perhaps sucking it up and doing a third AI for both the experience as well as a decent letter from a respected program?

As far as a sub-i goes, how much should you already go in knowing? I, personally, fear for my life because I know I’m not going to be able to answer a tremendous amount of questions due to lack of experience. Somebody please give a brief rundown for me, so I don’t suck...thanks.

They dont expect you to be an expert of neurosurgery, this is your first rotation in the field.  Do a sub-i at your home institution first and read as much as you can.  Carry a Greenberg’s at all times, its a good reference to have.  Work hard, be nice, and make your lower level residents look good.  Know how to tye knots, one handed and two handed.  Read up on the cases for the next day so you can be familiar with the anatomy for pimp questions.  I also recommend Benzels neuroimaging book for a good quick simple review of neuroradiology.  Don’t fear for your life, knowledge comes with experience and you will be surprised at how much you learn very quickly over your sub-i.  Good luck!

I agree that people don’t expect you to know everything, or even anything.  What everyone is going to expect though is that you work hard and more importantly work well with the team.  Take extra time to prepare for cases and presentations coming up.  Help out with any scut when you are not in the OR.  The residents will appreciate it even if they don’t notice.  Don’t sit around if your residents are running around.  Being noticed for the wrong reasons is much worse than not being noticed.  With the work hour restrictions on residents, your subinternship should be the hardest working time of your life until you are an attending.

I’m a pgy6 and was introduced to this site by a student the other day.  If you are a resident and a sub-i is outworking you, you should re-evaluate your commitment to your training, your patients, and to your department.

the sub-i’s that really shine are the ones that work hard.  it’s always a bonus if you’re booksmart.

what exactly is “working hard?” get involved.  be everywhere.  work your ass off.  be the first one to arrive and the last to leave.  help the team look good.  do stuff like: hang (or load, i guess is more common these days) the films for the case before the resident and attending get there, write or skeleton out the postop orders, help write notes, scrub in, ask questions.  the more you help us, the more we’ll help you.

any specific sub-I’s anyone reccs?

i love barry

Gyrus:

Your attitude at a specialty forum is appalling, this type of behavior is expected on studentdoctor premedical forums, NOT at a salon of neurosurgeons and neurosurgeon-hopefuls.

This is indicative of a serious personality flaw that I warn you will come through when you meet with higher-ups; a facade of people, by definition, is only temporary.  If this is how you truly are, you can surely expect not to get along with attendings, fellow residents, or anyone whom you may come across and spend time with them.  This will have grave consequences.

If this is simply meant to be a benign, yet arse-quip under the condition of anonymity, it speaks volumes as to the other facets of your being.

I’ve been a resident for a number of years now, and can certainly assure that people like you - their true colors always surface, and their progress is thusly limited.  Each program has a resident who maintained this pre-collegiate persona, and all have had difficulty getting along with attendings, nurses, patients, and others.

This isn’t a threat, but a warning.  Change now.  A two month rotation under any resident, myself included, will not bode well, and residency directors, as well as we residents ourselves, do not want people who cannot maintain even the slightest of decor even on a purely anonymous forum intended to aid others.

Ladies and gentleman, a message to you all.  Remember this forum is meant to aid each other.  Discuss honestly and openly.  I applaud these forums as it forces rumors to surface, secrets to be exposed, and other rumors to be destroyed.  It truly illustrates what’s out there and what other people think.  Posts like the above neither correct wrongs, nor engender thoughtful conversation.

My applause goes out to the creators of this forum; I certainly wished I had known of it years back when I went through the match.

hahaha my bad.  unknown to you, barry is one of my best friends.  Whenever he posts I write somethin right below just to get on his nerves.  I guess the joke isnt appreciated so well by observers.  I’ll try to control myself.  Alright BJ now more makin fun of ur posts

I agree with the above comments about how to be a good sub-i.  In my experience as a MS4, Kenny’s attitude is dead-on about just being there with a positive attitude.  One thing with which I do disagree: the need to to a sub-i at an institution in order to be considered there.  The only place I know of where applicants are absolutely required to rotate is UVA.  I know firsthand that several of the current BNI residents did NOT do an away rotation there and matched.  Some even say that a rotation at BNI can ‘hurt’ you, because you are given so much autonomy that you have ample opportunity to screw up.  That said, you should only do a sub-i at an institution in a city you could live in, because it does give you a foot in the door for your interviews.  Just a thought.

You guys are awesome man, pleeeeease keep dropping the knowledge on us!!!! Thanks, really all this insight is much appreciated. Thanks!!!!!!